Laurel Lake

NIBROC FAN · Senior Member

Laurel Lake

NIBROC FAN · Senior Member

I wanted to add this as I posted the other one too fast.

The issue with lake cumberland being lowered by the corps. of engineers due to the wolf creek dam problems could be a temporary boom to laurel lake and corbin and the area.

From the articles, many areas of the lake will be low or exposed, making it a very unappealing place to spend your time and money. This area could capitalize on the problem. Not wishing any ill will on the folks over there, but, that's the way it is. I see Laurel Lake reaping a windfall from this. The Ohio Navy may just keep going south and stop off at our town. London will get some of this too, but that's fine, you can't have it all.

And, if it takes that long, 6 or 7 years according to some articles and reports, this would prove very beneficial to us. If it takes that long and the travelers keep coming back year after year, we may keep them around here.

Date: Jan 24, 2007

I hope the water level at Laurel Lake this coming Summer is not as low as it was in July. I believe there will be a Major increase in traffic at Laurel this year. I hope the Marina's prepare. Holly Bay, Grove. Do you think making bigger Food service, Rest area would be a good idea based on the amount of possible spillover traffic from lake Cumberland? I am certain that you will get a whole lot of the Ohio Navy down here.

Date: Jan 25, 2007

LAUREL LAKE CANNOT HANDLE MOE TRAFFIC FROM OUT OF STATE .THE PROBLEM NOW IS THAT LOCAL PEOPLE CANNOT ENJOY OUR LOCAL LAKE DUE TO EXCESS WEEKEND TRAFFIC.I HAVE ALREADY INFORMED MY KIDS THAT THIER JET SKI TRIPS TO LAUREL MAY BE LIMITED TO WEEKDAY USE.I HATE TO SAY IT BUT I SEE ALOT OF PROBLEMS,DRINKING,TRAFFIC,LITTER,DROWNINGS ECT, THIS SUMMER.

Date: Jan 26, 2007

Correct

Not sure if these folks have been to the Lake this past summer, the water level was very low and the crowds were really bad on the weekends.

More Business is always nice but Capacity is an Issue, I think we were at Max during the Summer Months last Year, Can't see how we can fit any More of the Ohio Navy onto this Lake, just toooooo crowded already.

Can't Imagine what the Weekends are gonna be Like, the Grove and Holly Bay should Raise the Pass Issue Again and Charge a Premium for Out Of State! They will pay as there is NO where Else for them to Go, at least we generate some Money for the Extra Trouble.

I am for More Business but not over crowding.

Date: Jan 26, 2007

Why do you charge a premium to out of state people when we want to attract people to come to Kentucky and our area?

NIBROC FAN · Senior Member

It is odd, many want tourist dollars, but not the tourists. You can't have both.

I feel the ohio navy will be here in full force, around mid summer. THey'll hit cumberland first, memorial day, then realize how low the lake is and the inconvinence, and then head this way july 4th and on through the summer.

I say , come on.

If there's anything that needs to be done, it's more, much more, law enforcement on the lake. The patrols need to be much more visible, and much more proactive. I know there's a limit as to the available officers, and overtime, but, they need to saturate the lake.

We need those tourists, and in my opinion, sometimes the locals have to sacrifice. Tourism dollars are "found money".

Date: Jan 27, 2007

I disagree! Evidently you do not understand the serious impact to the local Marina's in these areas. According to news agencies the Gov. of Kentucky is putting a team together to help these areas because of the economic impact forecasted. According news sources, 90% of Marina's in these areas may be unusable. You have some good points, but I think these folks(locals), (Ohio Navy), if this number stands may be coming to Laurel Lake sooner than you think. Early Summer. This is why our Marina's, Holly bay, Grove need to prepare for possible major increase in traffic at the Lake. Then there is the Safety issue as well. I hope the Corp's of engineers at Laurel Lake plan for this as well. The Lake Cumberland Dam issue is a very serious problem. I believe we need to prepare for what is forecasted already. I hope our leaders will too. Better Safe than Sorry!

NIBROC FAN · Senior Member

Disagree with which part?

I feel I do understand the serious impact this will have. That's why I brought it up. I may not have elaborated enough, but I truly do understand. And, I sympathize with the lake cumberland business's that it will affect.

On the other hand, we have to watch our for ourselves here. If we get the tourism that goes with the lake even for a short time, maybe we can keep them.

You may be right on the impact coming earlier than I said, it depends on if the normal out of town visitors know about the cumberland problem. Some may, but I think many may not. I think many of the cumberland marinas will try to convince them to come on to cumberland, with perks like discounts and such.

I truly wonder what kind of help the governor will give to those areas. More so, who will get the help, and how much. Things like that is usually lip service, with only a chosen few getting anything, and the rest left to fend for themselves, especially the smaller operators. I see him subsidising the larger marinas, the political contributors or the families of those political friends, but not mom and pop places. The hotels, small grocery and bait shops, the small marinas, gas stations will need the most help. I'm sure they'll be a formula they'll contrive to get the help, and they small business's will be just under the line to qualify.

I hope the corps. of engineers helps them prepare. For all our sakes. And safety, that should be a part of the plan, you would think so anyway. Like I said, law enforcement needs to quadruple their patrols. They need a strong presence the entire time the dam project goes on.

Date: Jan 28, 2007

You have some good points Nibroc Fan, and I agree with most. But if 90% of the Marina's boat ramps are unusable, there ain't gonna be no reason for folks to even go there, unless to take there Boats,Pontoons,House boats, to other places, even if perks are given, it Won't matter. I'll buy the fact that some will not find out untill they actually go to Lake Cumberland, I did not think of that, good point. But word spreads fast if your a Lake person, even in Ohio. Jamestown Marina is one of the Finest I have seen. I can't imagine what some of these places will look like after they complete lowering of 43 feet from tree line. The Tourism Board in Russell Springs, Ky were very concearned about the impact to there local town. I heard this Board discussing these issues on their local radio when I was in Russell springs last week. Like you said earlier, I hate this is happenning to these folk's who rely on the Lake traffic to impact there local economies during Summer month's. On the flip side, I believe if folks see the Beauty and cleanliness of Laurel lake, some, not all, may stick around. Keep up the good opinions whether we agree or disagree, thats what makes this website unique.

NIBROC FAN · Senior Member

I can only imagine how worried those folks are. I know we would be just as concerned. Every time I visit Jamestown Marina, all I think of is "i wish we could have something like this".

You're right, lake users do talk with each other, so, again, we may see the numbers up early for Laurel.

One thing we both agree on, crowds and safety. Law enforcement needs to step up.

After reading you posts, I realized that this area, both london and corbin, has never really tried to "cash in" on the lakes use. Except for a few small grocery/gas stores, and a couple of boat storage facilities, no one really promotes it.

Sure, there are two marinas, but, they aren't tourist friendly.

Any suggestions out there of how to market the lake?

Date: Jan 28, 2007

The Poster is correct, as an Engineer myself I can tell you the Ramps (Lake Cumberland) there will be Unuseable if the Water Level comes down to their Projected Levels. I recently looked at the number of Boaters this effects and the actual amount is staggering, first it's a disaster on the Local Economy there and second of all (And this is for Nibroc Fan) you just can not say come on down to Laurel lake we need the Tourism Dollars. The TVA has a Capacity number they are well aware of, once this Capacity has been breached it is no longer possible to Safley use the Lake and effiently operate it at Profit margins for the Local Marinas. The Cost of Repair to the Lake area can be massive if this capacity is past, The TVA still is in charge of Maint there.

With all that said we all would love to see more Tourism Dollars Flow into this area, but we would like to see it happen as a Natural Progression of Improvements to the areas and growth, it's like a Bell Curve that grows gradually and gives the Local Lake Infrastructure Time to keep pace. Unfortunatley this will be a Big Bang and the infrastructure may not be able to handle it at one time.

Nibroc Fan ask why charge the out of state premium? Because the Money it will take to keep the Infrastructure in Place, the Lake Safe, Engineering Cost to the Spill Way & Dam, extra Law Enforcement, all Cost LOT's of Money, am afraid the Current Budgets absolutley are not funded to Cover this kind of Quick Impact and does not forsee things hapenning at Lake Cumberland or say Norris. It's Interesting how some folks are easily persuaded to stick a Restaurant Tax on Food to support a Civic Center (That will Bring in Good tourism Dollars), this Lake will do 20 Times the Business of the Civic Center will do but Nibroc Fan does not want to Charge a Fee? You have no trouble charging those same Ohio Naval People a Tax when they sit down an eat at our Local Restaurants?, what's the difference? There is no difference in the Money your Taxing Out of State Folks to support the Civic Center and Charging a Ramp Fee, both would support Local Infrastructure to bring in Tourism, Correct????

Can't have it both ways???

Maybe we can Take some of the Money errmarked for the New Convention Center and Divert it to our local Marinas????? Maybe.

I think Commissioner Shelton had some VERY GOOD ideas about investing into 312 Boat Ramp, look at the numbers of Boaters this will effect, you can get that from the State Web sites, think Mr. Shelton was right on the Mark_____________Here is your Chance if you really want to take Advantage of a Boom Opportunity 2 Miles from Downtown!!! The City has the Money & Infrastructure to create something special out there!!! Good Luck!

NIBROC FAN · Senior Member

Mr. Engineer,
Are you talking about the capacity of Laurel Lake, or Cumberland? And, does the TVA control Laurel or Cumberland, or both? Is the capacity issue based on lake surface, how is it calculated? And, who monitors this, the TVA, the Corps, water patrol? Do they do a boat count each day, or ramp counts or what. I've heard of capacity issues before, mainly back when laurel had a sewage problem, and they put seals on the houseboats from discharging sewage from the boat directly into the lake. I believe yes we can say come on down. Are you or anyone else brave enough to stand at the ramps and keep them from coming, and deciding who will and won't use the lake. (I'm talking about laurel now). Again, in your first paragrph, are you talking about laurel or cumberland or both. I thought Laurel was a corps. controlled lake. Seriously, how are these things calculated, and by whom specifically.

Another problem, tourism dollars only come around a few times, then they go on to somewhere else. You have to change with the changes, and sometimes that means NOW! The natural progression you speak of has in my opinion been going on for years, and has become stagnant. I can't point a finger and say why it is stagnant, I think personal politics has a lot to do with it. Although no evidenence to support that.

So, you apparently want to charge an out of state premium for lake use. Who will collect this, will you. Will we task the forest service, water patrol, shefiff or volunteers to collect this. I know this may seem a trivial thing, but, someone has to collect the money, especially at a ramp with no maring. Are you going to stand there and collect it based on boat registration. What would you charge, 1,2 5, 10, or 20 bucks. I assume you mean for laurel lake for this charge, or also for cumberland. NO, I DO NOT THINK WE SHOULD CHARGE A FEE, IN OR OUT OF STATE.

Yes, I still support the restaurant tax, and will. That said, you have your stance, I have mine. I feel you are wrong, so, that's that in my opinion.

Since you or anyone else has no clue how much money the new civic center will bring in, there is no debate there. We'll all have to see after it opens. You can be sure, there'll be a lot of finger pointing from either side if it does well or not. So, we both need to be prepared. What dollars do you count when you say the lake brings in dollars. City or county dollars, state or federal. I'm talking about city dollars. Hotels, restaurants, shopping. And, corbin business's. The reason I say that is I understand you don't agree with the civic center project. If I'm wrong, I apologize. Am I correct in that assumption.

So, you want to take city funds, and divert them to a state/federal facility like the marinas. That is something you would have to qualify in a very detailed way. Plus, you would have show where, and I mean specifically how the money was used. And I don't mean going into the marina owners pockets.

Shelton's comments on 312 was agressive, but, again, 312 is the worst of all the ramps in my opinion. When I was a boater, not too long ago, I only used it when I had to. The stair climb is not fun, and walking the road to the top even worse. It sounded good, but, he needed to follow up with some details and plans at the next meeting. I've noticed many of the commissioners over the years love to talk, and then you never hear of it again. We'll see about his ideas. If he's serious, he'll follow through with his idea.

I hope you post back, especially with the capacity issues. I'm very interested in that info.

Date: Jan 30, 2007

Nibroc Fan

Apparently you have not boated in the last 10-20 Years, the (Laurel) Lake brings in many more Dollars to the Local Economy than your Civic Center that has not made a penny yet. I also said that I thought it was a Good Idea (The Civic Center), you certainly do not like anyone to disagree with you, do you?

The Capacity here Nibroc Fan is Calculated based on Water Levels which equates into Surface Area whice equates into the amount of Boats that can safley navigate the area, Call the TVA to get the Exact Calculation. You also ask how you collect fee's, there is already a System in place which requires anyone using the facilities to buy a Pass, you should already know that but your asking alot of questions to try and manuver my points to your advantage, you have not used the Lake in 20 Years or would have known this.

You also would know that it is very Easy when you buy these Pass's to know if it's out of state or in state, my Posting also made it very clear I was talking about Capacity on Laurel Lake to Handle 10 Years of Growth in one year based off of the Water Levels that will drop on Lake Cumberland which will render 90% of the Boat Ramps unuseable. We already talked about all this.

You Clearly do not pay attention an spout off Pyscho-Babble, your doing it all over this web-Site, again I support the Rest Tax and have also read the Engineering report on how the new center will run and the funding it will take to maintain it, hate to tell ya but your not the only one to ever go down this road. There is No difference at all in the way the Civic Center has been Marketed, Funded and how you would fund Laurel Lake, and if you think the Lake has no effect on the City your way off.

Sure the Ramps at 312 are hard to get to but this will LOOK really good when that 90% of Cumberland Ramps are closed and our friends are traveling down I-75 to find a close Lake access, the next one Closest is Flatwoods which is not very Large compared to what Traffic could come from Lake Cumberland.

It's absolutley amazing you will take the same Folks money when they Buy something to eat but absolutley oppose getting a small tax when they buy a pass to support the opertion of the Lake and Infrastructure it takes, why don't you just admit that since the Lake is not all packed in the City you really do not support it? On the one hand you say the Lake Tourism is Stagnant but on the other hand you do not want to enact a small Tax to better the area an market the more Tourism you say we need, what are you saying? But yet you want to do this with Rest Tax???

Yes I support the Rest Tax ALSO____But I also support the same Philosophy for the Lake even though it is not in the city it will have a Massive impact on all the Restaurants, Gas Satations and Corbin City Tourism on both the South & North Ends, Take a look at the Boats in the Parking Lot's of these places in the summer, talk with the Hotel Owners on the Interstate there within the City and ask them what % of their Business is tied to the Lake in the Summer? You seem to think that the City is tied to only Civic Center activity, those guys will starve to death if they listen to you!

Your for the Rest Tax to support and create Tourism on the one hand (AN I agree) but you seem to be against the same Philosohpy to help create Tourism for the Lake? Double Talk and Situational Ethics may be at work here?

Let's wait and see what kind of Impact the closing of 90% of the Lake Cumberland Docks has on our Local Economy.

I'll surf the State Web Sites and find the amount of Projected Tourism Dollars spent within the Corbin City Limits during the summer months, I have seen the Projected Impact of the Civic Center and support and hope this happens but let's compare notes, look forward to seeing the Real Dollars spent in the area.

Date: Jan 30, 2007

Nibroc Fan

I also am very interested in Facts & Data, not your Opinion, I respect it though. I do look forward to seeing some of your Facts & Data from here on out and not your opinion or speculation, let's curb the opinions and use Facts & Data.

I'll be waiting---------Like all your Opinions on several subjects but it's only opinions and mostly based on what you want to do and not what may be best for this area.

Do you know what the state web-sites have posted for the average houehold income for Corbin, Knox County, Whitley County?

Tell us

Date: Jan 31, 2007

I agree with this Poster. There is a tremendous opportunity the city could cash in on if they get agressive. 312 boat ramp, possible Rest, New tram system to get Nibroc fan down to the Boat in. And the amount of money the Spillover Traffic from lake Cumberland could spend on the South end(City Limits). This could double buisness in the summer for Gas stations,Restaurants. Why not Charge a fee at these ramps? I just happen to see a benefit from this.I hope the commissioner that brought this up will speak again on the issue.

Date: Jan 31, 2007

The average incomes for each County in the Tri-County area is shown in this website under the Economic Development section.

NIBROC FAN · Senior Member

Mr. Engineer, seems I've struck a nerve with you. Good,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Seems you have an issue with several of my opinions. That's good too. I ask one favor, register on this site and give yourself a name, such as Mr. Engineer, so when you do post, I or others will know it's you. Otherwise, try to at least let us know it's you out there. And I love for people to disagree with me, as when they do, you always hear the other side of an issue, one that you may not have seen or known of. As for my opinions, follow behind me with yours. It may change mine, and possibly even yours.

I don't do facts and data, and won't. That's for folks like you, and newspaper reporters, they have to use them. As an engineer, that is what you deal with, day to day. That's good, someone needs to. I welcome them, as they prove interesting to any topic. But all decisions can't be made on facts or data.

Yes, I use the lake now, I don't own a boat. I don't buy the passes. So, I dont' get involved with that issue. No, I don't believe in the pass, nor do I believe in the fee you propose. I know dozens of people who are recreational boaters, fishermen, wave runner riders, houseboaters. None that I know and talk to, like or agree with the pass. I'm sure there's some that do, and that's fine. That said, I think we've settled our issue on that as far as we'ere concerned anyway. Maybe others will post on this one issue.

Civic center, no, it hasn't made a penny. I hope it does for all the towns sake. I think it WILL do well. It has the support of a great many people that is putting a great effort to help make it successful. As for the projections, they're worthless, as they're just opinions, or "psycho-babble" to some. Projections are usually biased from the persons making the projections.

Like I said, you won't get facts and data from me, only opinions. And, I'll continue to do so here. That's what this forum is for. Don't like it, fine, post yours. Which of my other posts do you take issue with. Annexation, chamber of commerce, buying of tax bills.

I'll continue with my opinions, and see what folks have to say. I like hearing others opinions.

No, I don't know the average household income for this area. Since you brought it up ( that is your post isn't it, asking what it is, as you have no name to go by) I'll let you look it up and tell us.

I also hope the commissioner, Shelton I believe, brings this 312 issue up again. It has much merit. We'll see what he has to say about it.

Keep surfing this board Mr. Engineer, we always need another opinion on all the topics. Maybe you could come up with some.

Date: Jan 31, 2007

The Engineer and the NIBROC Fan both do a good job in presenting their views. That is helpful to all of us. Some of us may not understand some of these issues as well as you do, so keep it up.

NIBROC FAN · Senior Member

Thank you, and believe me, I learn a lot from this board, particularly from other peoples points of view.

If our leaders could have these types of discussions, we would be in great shape.

Date: Feb 1, 2007

Those people that usually go to cumberland will be at laurel no matter what anybody says. No reports are going to stop them. Even if you charged, it wouldn't make that big of a difference.

We better get ready for them, because ready or not, here they come.

We are at the lake all the time. Except for the 3 holidays, memorial day, july 4th, and labor day, the lake hasn't been that crowded in the last few years.

Date: Feb 1, 2007

Once Again I Must Call Nibroc Fan to Task

Those friends of Yours , who you just plainly said are using Wave Runners and Fishing Boats ALREADY buy Pass's, the Pass is around $40 Dollars per year or You can buy One, Two, Three or Five Day Pass's. The $40 Bucks goes in Several different directions so the Current crowd would not know the Difference in $41 and $40. Ya Know like Eating a Meal at one of our Local Restaurants that will serve these same out of state Boaters when they eat in our city, I think it may have been you that said the Rest Tax only adds a few more Cents or maybe a Single Dollar, Not much differnce. Right?

The Extra Dollars are for a Good cause for the city and certainly promotes Tourism and the new center, however had this been put to a Popular vote it would have easily lost as nobody likes even a few cents more of any type of Taxation, I am sure your Boating Friends do not want any more cost added to the Yearly Pass's that they MUST buy in order to even use the Lake, just like my friends don't want to pay anymore Tax's on Rest Food, Gas Groceries or anything else when we pay an average of 35% in direct Tax's out of our Pay checks ,added Tax's of any kind are not popular.

My argument for the Dollar Extra on the Boating Pass is just as Legitamate as your Extra Tax Money on Food to support the New Civic Center, the Only difference here is your Favorite Project is the civic center and you may be tunneling your vision, I see the Entire area has to be afforded the same vision and the Standards applied across the Board the same way as it will take many Dollars to bring this area up and raise the Numbers at the Bottom that shows our area is amoung the Poorest in the Nation!

By the way the average Income of Know County is 17K per year, the average for Corbin is around 21K per year, now ya see why Folks in this area are not happy about any Kind of Taxation on anythng?

Take that Flat 30%-35% out of these numbers and see what disposable income they have left.

Your Friend the Eng

NIBROC FAN · Senior Member

Mr. Engineer,

It's obvious we have differences here, so we need to agree we disagree and move on. I welcome your opinions and ideas, as you should mine.

The lake issue is bigger than just corbin, but I'm only concerned with the effect it will have on corbin. That may seem narrow minded or selfish, but, since I live here, that's my concern. Not the county, or laurel or other counties. Just corbin. The other towns and counties can and will have their own concerns.

Again, I know of no boater or fisherman that I have spoke with, that like the pass issue. Many has found ways around buying one, and have said they won't buy one. Is that cheating and/or illegal, yes. That's their issue, not mine. If they get caught, they'll pay the price. And, of course they or anyone else would not have voted for a tax or fee for the lake use. And, no, they, or we, wouldn't have voted for the restaurant tax, or the occupational tax given the opportunity. But, both are here, and until we elect someone to take them out, they'll stay. And I stand by my guns that a majority of the money collected by the restaurant tax will be from "out of the city limits" folks. Be they tourists, or just out of the city residents.

I don't know what the projections of revenue for corbin are from the lake, do you? Keep in mind here, for corbin only. And, keeping in mind anything on exit 29, is not technically corbin. Those revenues and taxes go to laurel county. Corbin folks may work in the exit 29 area, and they need those jobs, but, their occupational tax they pay goes to laurel county. Didn't mean to get off subject there, but I felt that it fit.

That said, we CAN see how much the restaurant tax will, and HAS, brought in for the city. For the city, not the county. Yes the county will get a percentage, but we can't do anything about that.

The tunnel vision you say I have about the lake fee can also be said about your issues with the restaurant tax. Yes, I agree with you on the both being legitimate issues to each of us. But, again, my concerns are with the city rather than the overall counties the lake effects.

Would you happen to know the numbers as far as how much a dollar increase would total up to, for all the ramps on laurel. I don't. I'm just asking as an interested party.

I truly think we're heading down the same road here, we're just speaking different languages as we go.

Also, thanks for the income figures. I would have guessed around 20k for the area overall as an average. Unless we were to get a Toyota or Saturn plant or something like that, it'll be that way for years to come.

Date: Feb 2, 2007

Don't know where this fee increase talk came from, it's bad enough to have to pay to use something that was paid for with our tax dollars to start with.

These people that will be here this summer are coming, no matter what the infrastructure does. I take it that means, water, electricity, sewer and garbage around the lake.

NIBROC FAN · Senior Member

The previous poster is right, they're coming no matter what.

We need to do what we can and the best way we can.

I still say we have the opportunity to capitalize on this, and hopefully keep some of the tourists here even after the lake dam is repaired.

Date: Feb 3, 2007

Hello Mr Nibroc

Guess we agree to Dis-Agree, I see that 20K Figure and Gasp, I also think it will Take a Higher Vision for the Entire area to be able to Bring that Figure up, not Just Corbin. Laurel Lake is actually Closer to Corbin than the New Civic Center will be.

I have said over and over i support the new Center, always have but I also see the Lake, Cumberland Falls as two Major Gold Mine's we could cash in on which no question helps the City Especially the South End where the City has a Vested interest in Hotels, Food establishments and as you have said provides proabably the Largest Bang on the Rest. Tax.

But once Again it takes Infrastructure to Support these things, got a Surprise for Ya, put your Rest Tax or any othe Tax to a Poplar Vote and see what Happens, sure the Fisherman and Folks do not Like the Tax's but Neither do those same Fisherman want to Pay City Tax's or Rest Tax's, come on Give me a Break.

Glad you live in Corbin but the rest of us do to, the Hotels and Establishments do not care where the Money Comes from as it's all Green, the city has several great ways to make things happen and simply building Civic Center is not the End of the Road, in the end it's about creating Jobs and raising our area above that Horrible Figure of 17K-20K.

The Poster at the Bottom is right, ther coming period, Fact. that Means Lot's of Dollars for the Local Economy, something the Civic Center has yet to Prove, but let's hope it will be a good thing and have the Impact we all Hope it will. My Money is on the Lake and what has Unfolded with Lake Cumberland, I really see this as an Unforseen Gold Mine and the Gift that will keep on Giving. 100 X the Traffic of the Civic Center!!!! We'll see who is right by late summer.

NIBROC FAN · Senior Member

Yes Engineer, you're right. We just disagree. And time will tell. Problem is, it'll take some time for either of these issues to pan out.

The per capita income you speak of will take decades, or even a lifetime to come up above 20k. Even ol Hal Rogers himself can't bring that one up.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying the lake is closer to corbin than the new civic ceter, as the center is in the city limits. 312 ramp, is it in the city limits. I know our police patrol it, but I think it's a courtesy thing just to say we did go out there. Is that what you're thinking? Otherwise, I'm not sure your direction there.

I admitted before that no one would vote for a tax, any tax, including fishermen, or myself for that matter. That said, we agree. It's not a surprise, it's human nature. As far as the lake goes though, this tourist windfall will only be through the summer, and not the rest of the year. That is the way it is now. After labor day, the tourism falls very dramatically, and the majority of the lake traffic is local. How do I know, the marina's and stores around the area lay off their employees. There is some traffic when it is warm, but not anywhere close to summer traffic. By local, I'd say out to 40 miles from the lake. And, those using it normally do not stay in hotels. They may eat some fast food, or now, drink a beer, but, they don't stay the night. They're fishermen, and they get up early, fish all day, and go home. Your lake tourism dollars will pretty much end there, with the summer.

You seem to have issues with the civic center overall. Many do. I did at first. It's like we wished and wished for something like that, hoping we would get one. Then, all of a sudden, we got it. Now, what do we do. Sort of like buying the car of your dreams, and when you someday get it, you realize you can't afford the gas or insurance to drive it. It sits there, in your driveway, but, it don'w move. People know you've got it, you talk about it alot, but that's is. Like the big center in somerset. It's just now starting to be used, and NOT to the potential it was hoped it would.

If you started today, the infastructure you speak of would take years to develop, and even more tax dollars. By the time all the parties got together, and developed improvment or even new plans for one, the lake cumberland problem would be over. The reason is, it would be primarily a tourism investment. Yes, it would benefit the overall population that it touches, but, it would be developed as a tourism improvement, thus the time it would take to develop.

A good example of this, in the sense of "necessary" infastructure, would be the new corbin primary school. Everything there is an immediate need, road alterations, sewer, electric, etc. It is being done now, because of the school.

All this said, I hope we're both wrong, for the sake of corbin. We'll just have to wait and see. I will sure be willing to admit if I'm wrong, will you?