Laurel Lake

Date: Feb 4, 2007

RE: Laurel Lake

NIBROC FAN · Senior Member

Engineer,

Your facts and figures, from the web site are interesting. From all those numbers you quote, did it divide the figures by areas, such as Grove, Holly Bay, Laurel Dam, or various ramps. Or even, corbin or london, and even williamsburg could be thrown in. I would be interested in those figures. That's like saying the state of kentucky gets x amount of tourism dollars, but where do these dollars come from, and more importantly where are they spent.

You quoted that 60% of the money was local, and came within 30 miles of the lake, another interesting figure. Wonder what percentage of that came from the corbin area. I ask you because you love the data information. I have nothing to back me up, but I doubt the accuracy of those figures, along with the totals you give. Not that they were published, but the accuracy of which they were compiled.

I can't argue with you, for now, that the civic center is not making money. The city has a big stake in the center, and those that decided to go for it, put a lot of pressure on themselves, they accepted a lot of responsibility. But, if it pans out, in my opinion, (read that closely, my opinion) the civic center will be a bigger overall and longer term positive impact on corbins economic front than the lake, or should I say, the CORBIN portion of the lake.

I wasn't going to comment on your 312 ramp issue. But I will. I say it's a courtesy patrol. I don't recall the year, but part of the reason for us going out there was due the illegal and illicit activity going on there, and either the state or federal forest and park service asked for our help, as they couldn't patrol it hardly at all, and the city offered to help. It's a good gesture, I'm all for it, but, it's a courtesy patrol.

Date: Feb 6, 2007

So what's the engineer person trying to say, to give back the money for the civic center and say 'no, we've changed our mind'.

he thinks the lake is all that great for corbin, no way. yeah, it helps, but not like he says.

you can read all the government reports you want to, but talk to the business owners, i do, as i've worked for many of them, that draws from the lake, and that money he talks about isn't there.

talk to the summer help from grove and holly bay, see what they say.

i live in corbin, and this center can help a lot.

Date: Feb 6, 2007

I've always wondered what percentage of the money earned by the marinas, from fuel, food, slip rent, etc., comes back to the state.

And, if this marina operation is a permanent thing, or bid on, or what. Maybe this engineer can find that our for us.

Date: Feb 6, 2007

Go to the Core Of Engineers Web-Site for Laurel Lake, all ya have to do is Google laurel lake. look at the Economic Impact within 30 Miles., look at the number of visitors??? It would take the Civic Center based on their current capacity (4500 Seats) to sell out every week for 10 Straight years to match just 25% of what the lake area brings in?? Take a Look, these Camping areas alone will Rival the Civic center (Holly Bay & Grove Marina)

Decide for yourself, that's where the numbers come from. Look for yourself, make up your own mind based on facts & data and not emotion.

Too many folks here speculate with Emotion, look at the real facts.

Date: Feb 6, 2007

Nibroc Fan

You can easily dig deeper than I did, these were the upper numbers but can be sliced down to the exact area, these came from the Core Of Engineers Web-Site, you doubt them all you want but that's the Official Govt Report, maybe you know more than the Core, let's see your figures?

Did you ask the City about 312 or is this your opinion, not being critical but want to know is this the Official Position of the City or are you speculating?

Just a Question as again you have Zero facts and are only stating your opinions, how about a little research?

Eng

Date: Feb 7, 2007

Official government report, sure, we ALL trust official govt. reports. We ALL trust official govt numbers.

I thought this site was all about opinions and ideas. If all you want is numbers, go somewhere else. When most people only quote numbers, that's all they have to talk about. If we relied on the number crunchers, we would have never went to the moon.

Date: Feb 8, 2007

That's the Funny Quote of the Day--------------Ya think we just Jumped on a Rocket and Took a little Drive to the Moon????? Ya think any Math & Calculation were involved??????

Date: Feb 8, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Official government report, sure, we ALL trust official govt. reports. We ALL trust official govt numbers.

I thought this site was all about opinions and ideas. If all you want is numbers, go somewhere else. When most people only quote numbers, that's all they have to talk about. If we relied on the number crunchers, we would have never went to the moon.

THAT'S IS THE MOST D.A. QUOTE EVER!!!!!

NIBROC FAN · Senior Member

Once again engineer, I'll let you research the numbers for us, you seem to have the time and love the effort it takes to research them. Me, I'll continue my opinions and ideas. When we need a sewer or water line quote, we'll call you. Would you happen to know why the "CORPS of Engineers" last report was in 1999. I would have thought they would have put another out since then. I know you engineers use the Corps as a sort of "all knowing" reference. That can be a good thing sometimes.

You seem to have a problem with peoples opinions that don't include a host of facts and figures, or am I mistaken. Or is it my stand on the civic center, or the restaurant tax. (by the way, did you see the Applebee's article in the paper. We may get one, will you eat there? I'd hate for you to have to spend another $1.50 that you didn't have to. ) How do you feel about the occupational tax you're paying? Figuring you live somewhere in the tri counties, you pay it to one county or city or the other. How do you feel about that?

And yes, I'll stick with my opinion of the 312 patrols, courtesy patrols. You seem to take this personally, calling them courtesy patrols. Why? Is this issue of some greater importance to you? Are you closer to this subject than I think? Most people make light of it.

The rocket to the moon statement was cute, but, to me, the last two posters took it to seriously. I took it as a politician making a statement, such as "we're going to the moon", and then asking the experts if it can be done. Elected officials have a tendency to do that. The post right after that one sounded like you, but I guess not as you didn't initial it.

Date: Feb 8, 2007

And yes, I'll stick with my opinion of the 312 patrols

That's Your Quote Nibroc Fan an as YOU say it's your opinion, not sure who the other Posters are here but that's their text not mine, sounds like you have some Issues with them. Once Again your saying the City is Providing Courtesy patrols but you can not say this is the Official City Position, is it? Respect your Opinion again but is it the Official Position of the City., why don't you call them and let us know something here in the Morning? Nothing really to me either way, just Exposing here Opinion based babbling and your Inability to back anything Real up.

You seem to have Plenty of Opinions all over this Web-Site but again Nothing Fact based, Why. You also Talk about an Occupational Tax, sorry again here Nibroc Fan but this does not have anything to do with where you live but where you work, you could live in Tn but work in Whitley County or Corbin but have to pay this Tax, it only applies to where you work. Again your spouting stuff off with no facts but opinion & emotion.

I have no problem with Opinions but they should not include Half-Truths and very Mis-Leading information which you are pushing out all over this site, when your hand is called to back up your opinions and Half-Truths you seem to get angry,MMMMMMM.

Great News on the new Restaurant!!!!! I'm sure only the people in the City Limits will eat there? Right. Ask Jim Vance the FACTS & FIGURES they had to give this Rest Chain in order to Locate a Franchise here, you think it was just Corbin Figures or ya think they had to use the Entire Tri-County area to pull in these Folks????

As for the Moon Statement, looks like the Other Posters have pretty Much addressed how we see that remark.

Date: Feb 8, 2007

Yes, the Previous post in Mine

Eng

NIBROC FAN · Senior Member

Good, we'll stick with OUR opinions on the 312 patrols, and leave it at that. I don't care what the official city position is, as my opinion will have no bearing on their position, and you apparently DO care if it is the official city position. They are courtesy patrols in my opinion. I won't call them, the city, maybe you could, you sound as if you're just aching to. I'd say you already have, and don't want to admit it here. If you do call, you can talk with one of your fellow engineers, our city manager. I'm sure you can both talk numbers and facts and figures.

What do I need to back up? This is a message board, a conversation board. Opinions are welcome here. Why don't you find other threads here, and post some of your opinions, ideas, thoughts, issues or whatever you like. Just be sure and add the "engineer" to your post so we'll know who you are. Better yet, register the "engineer" as your user name, and you won't have to add it, it'll come up automatically. Branch out of the "Laurel Lake" section and see the rest of the board. You'll find many people have opinions here, and they don't worry about the "facts and data" to back up their opinions. I'm sure you'll do well when slamming people for just their opinions with no data. You need to check out the thread on our local boards. You'd love that one.

What are my half truths and misleading info you speak of? What hand of mine have you called? I speak my mind, and that's that. You have a problem with that obviously. If I've spoken a half truth here, let me know what it is, I'll check it out. If you post something that starts conversation, that's what this site is all about.

You got the occupational tax thing right, congratulations. That was a test for you. Give yourself an A.

You do read the papers, the Applebee's thing is a great perk for the city. And for everyone else as well. Just think, out of the city folks will come and eat there, and help the tourism commission pay to run the civic center, as well as other tourism based programs. The in city folks will pay as well, but will get the benefit of also receiving the money from property taxes, privlidge license taxes, insurance taxes, occupational taxes. People form all over the area will have jobs that will (should) pay good money when working there. I believe the mayor mentioned in the article he felt the "convention center" helped in their chosing to locate it here. Could you call that a collateral effect of the the civic center.

Vance is commended for trying to get this restaurant here. I hope it works out for him. The article didn't mention Vance as being the restaurant owner, only the land owner, unless I overlooked it. I'd say Vance had to do all kinds of things to get them to come look at his lot. I'd also say he had it already in place. I'm sure he "hired" someone to get this data from. I wish him good luck. We also need a new pizza hut, a newer 100 seater, on that end of town.

Awaiting your response.

Date: Feb 8, 2007

Thanks Nibroc Fan

You just made all of my points, the 312 Issue is only your Opinion, that's what i thought but you Clarified it. You also were Mis-Leading about the Occupational Tax, nice try by saying that was a Test, it was really your Lack of getting the facts right of which I have been saying all along, you simply can not back up anything.

Your Posting crap all over this site, your name should be the "Spam Fan" instead of Nibroc Fan.

By the way, your the second person in as Many days that has suggested a New Piza Hut, I read that somewhere? Do you live in the City???? just Wondering

I do however agree with the Civic Center Spin-Off in the ability to attract this Chain, no question it had something to do with the Recruitment.

By the way, you seem to know alot about Everything, I read here where the Tourism Director is Not a City resident, wonder if this is true???????????????

Eng

Date: Feb 8, 2007

NIBROC FAN and Engineer, you are both making us more aware of the these issues, and it is a very good subject for people to debate. Thanks to both of you for sharing your beliefs.

Date: Feb 8, 2007

Thank You for a Free Forum to speak on, Agree Or DisAgree, the Nation was founded on these Freedoms.

I Thank the Terrells for their Commitment & Support for a Free Press & Media here.

Thank You to Bob Jr & Sr!!!!
Eng

NIBROC FAN · Senior Member

Eng.,

Opinions are never "crap", I guess unless they disagree with yours. You still haven't told me of any specifics of my erronious posts. I await your answer on that. And "spam fan", where did that come from? You sound jealous.
What other "crap" have I posted that you don't like or agree with. Please tell me, so I can post more. I want to keep you active. Strange how you've only posted on this thread with your signature. So far, aside from your infrastructure issue, you haven't offered any opinions on anything. There's a good one on basketball you should chime in on in another section.

Yes the Pizza Hut issue was in the weekly paper, in Mr. Estep's editorial. I wholeheartedly agree with him, we need a newer and bigger one. And, one that serves beer.

Yes, in the "who are our board members" thread, a poster there not only said he didn't live in the city limits, but later listed his home address. I don't agree with that, listing personal information , but, they did.

You should feel free to post elsewhere on this site, but be sure and list your name, so we'll know it's you. It's amazing what you can learn here, from all the other "spammers".

Date: Feb 10, 2007

Hey NIBROC FAN, I commend you on your posts, whether I agree with all of them or not. You don't slam anyone, you present you opinion in a positive way. Some people just don't have the ability to "agree to disagree", and turn disagreements into something personal. Keep posting, you seem to make many valid points. I may not always agree, but I respect you for taking the time to offer your opinions, and also in how you present your opinions.

Date: Feb 10, 2007

Well-Well it's our Good friend the Nibroc Fan alias "Spam Fan"

Oh where do I begin, lets's start with you not paying attention, you first of all Mis-Lead people of the Occupational Tax, second of all you babbled about what kind of Police Protection we had at 312 Bridge, I actually did not care either way but it was nice to pin you down and force you to say you really had no idea what was going on but just made an opinion, which is what alot of us thought all all along.

As far as spamming all over this web-site, I'll leave that to you since your doing such a great job. I certainly hope you do not put the same spin in other Threads as you have here on Laurel lake, The Occupatuional Tax & Anything pertaining to 312 as you have been Mis-Leading on Each of those points.

I read the other Posts too, don't know where the personal Info came from but you may want to go a little further back and see where each name of each board member was posted, that's where the Cat got out of the Bag, when that happens folks will do a little research and easily find some answers, you know the same facts that you never seem to have!

It is Amazing what you can learn here, and it's also interesting to be able to divide "Emotional Guessing" from Real "very basic" Fact which again you never seem to have, your opinions are welcome, it's almost entertaining to read them and respect ya for putting them outhere but most I have seen when zeroing in on Reality don't stand up to a second or third question and Collapse.

You have been awarded a New Name since you like them so well------------"No Fact Fan" Use this when you post so we can all Chuckle when we sift through your Hundreds of posts, we'll know not to take you to serious.

Eng

Date: Feb 10, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Well-Well it's our Good friend the Nibroc Fan alias "Spam Fan"

Oh where do I begin, lets's start with you not paying attention, you first of all Mis-Lead people of the Occupational Tax, second of all you babbled about what kind of Police Protection we had at 312 Bridge, I actually did not care either way but it was nice to pin you down and force you to say you really had no idea what was going on but just made an opinion, which is what alot of us thought all all along.

As far as spamming all over this web-site, I'll leave that to you since your doing such a great job. I certainly hope you do not put the same spin in other Threads as you have here on Laurel lake, The Occupatuional Tax & Anything pertaining to 312 as you have been Mis-Leading on Each of those points.

I read the other Posts too, don't know where the personal Info came from but you may want to go a little further back and see where each name of each board member was posted, that's where the Cat got out of the Bag, when that happens folks will do a little research and easily find some answers, you know the same facts that you never seem to have!

It is Amazing what you can learn here, and it's also interesting to be able to divide "Emotional Guessing" from Real "very basic" Fact which again you never seem to have, your opinions are welcome, it's almost entertaining to read them and respect ya for putting them outhere but most I have seen when zeroing in on Reality don't stand up to a second or third question and Collapse.

You have been awarded a New Name since you like them so well------------"No Fact Fan" Use this when you post so we can all Chuckle when we sift through your Hundreds of posts, we'll know not to take you to serious.

Eng

Date: Feb 10, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Hey NIBROC FAN, I commend you on your posts, whether I agree with all of them or not. You don't slam anyone, you present you opinion in a positive way. Some people just don't have the ability to "agree to disagree", and turn disagreements into something personal. Keep posting, you seem to make many valid points. I may not always agree, but I respect you for taking the time to offer your opinions, and also in how you present your opinions.

I don't know who Eng is, but NIBROC FAN, keep on posting your thoughts. Eng originally had some good posts but his attacks muddy his cause, whatever that might be. Eng, people start to tune you out when you start the attacks, and you hurt your cause.

Date: Feb 19, 2007

A question for the "Engineer", just what kind of engineer are you? When I first started reading this thread, I assumed you must be a civil engineer or something of that sort. Maybe construction, electrical, mechanical, something along those lines. Your talk of infrastructure seemed to parallel that of someone along those lines. But, you quickly began to disassociate yourself with the education and training of a true engineer. I've never seen a person, who is a true engineer, display such terrible grammar and spelling errors.

Then, when you totally mispelled and misused the term "Core of Engineers", that took you out of that realm for me or anyone else thinking you're a real engineer.

That said, your lack of professionalism with each of your posts that most would associate you with being a true "engineer", seems to bring your credibility down with each post. You attack people, and then when they ask you for specifics of your examples, you can't provide them. You actually act more jealous than anything. You have nothing to say except for insults. You actually haven't provided any information or "facts and data" yourself, and you claim to live by that creed, "facts and data". You referenced only one piece of information about the lake, and it was almost 10 years old.

So, are you a sound engineer, a train engineer, a sanitation engineer, or what? Did you go to college for your engineering degree? Did you have to take writing and english courses? It seems that you didn't.

You've also offered no concstructive suggestions about this post, or any other that I've found. I've read posts on other threads that have the same tone, and incorrect spelling as your posts here. Are you not posting your name elsewhere?

You sound like just a disgruntled person, and this guy has pushed your buttons. You love the lake, as most of us do, and have a fascination with the 312 boat ramp. Why??????

Maybe you should try helpful suggestions, or just civil conversational posts, rather than act like a child and attack people. So far, you're the "problem", and not the "solution" that this type of message board needs.

Date: Mar 6, 2007

To the Previous poster. I have been reading these posts. You do a good job attacking the Engineer yourself. Blow the Smoke off and look in the Mirror!

Date: Mar 14, 2007

Folks at the Grove & Both Holly Bay have said they have answered over 200 Calls from people who want to move their Boats away from Lake Cumberland, sounds like some of the predictions here about summer traffic at Laurel may very well be true.

The Advice posted at our Local Marinas is to be extremly careful this year as Saturdays & Sundays will be extremly busy.

Looking forward to the summer even if it's busy

Date: Mar 14, 2007

Laurel Lake is a popular site for many people who love boating and camping. It is a beautiful area and a valuable tourism attraction. It is great for the local area citizens as well.

Date: Jul 16, 2007

Was at the lake on memorial day weekend, and most weekends through the july 4th week. We haven't noticed any big increase from the normal traffic through the summer. It has been busy, but, we've never had any trouble parking. The Grove and Holly Bay are both the main places to park, as the other ramps are still unsupervised. We were out just this weekend, and there were boats on the lake, but, nothing major.

Lake Cumberland is hurting, as are the locals who base their business and incomes on tourism. We have been over there a few days this summer, with friends who boat there, and it is dangerous in many places, with rocks, tree stumps, etc. all about.

One small marina operator said this thing with the dam could take 3 to 4 years to complete, and then the lake has to fill up.

I know one thing, it's much more expensive to boat now than in the past. We buy our gas at a station, but it's still expensive. And, towing the boat is high too, as our truck uses more fuel, which costs more money to boot.

Date: Jul 25, 2007

I was reading through the posts here. This engineer clown must have been one of them that designed and built the cumberland lake dam that is leaking. I can see why, he can't spell, has terrible grammar, and is an idiot.

He obviously hasn't been to laurel lake lately.