Harley Davidson Dealership

Date: Nov 28, 2007

RE: Harley Davidson Dealership

Date: Nov 29, 2007

Okay folks. Please understand that Harley Davidson the motorcycle manufacturer is not opening a facility in Corbin, London, Somerset or anywhere in Kentucky.

It's a dealership, not a manufacturing facility. Harley Davidson will not benefit in any way from any incentive offered by any local government. It's like saying Ford cares about any incentive given to Falls Ford.

Maddux is essentially the only one who will benefit from any locally offered incentives, not Harley Davidson.

I could understand offering tax breaks or utility incentives to industrial companies looking to locate here, but a Harley Davidson dealership is a retail establishment owned by an individual.

With enough money, you could open your own Harley Davidson dealership. So should we pay you to open a store?

Hey if that's the case, I've got several great ideas. Someone send me a chunk of money, and tell me I can ignore the taxes and I'll open several places.

There are plenty of reasons that small businesses fail in the first year. Public incentives have yet to save a failing business.

Date: Nov 29, 2007

That was a very long and wordy post from an ex economic development director or his follower, mostly BS, in an effort to make the current economic development director look bad. It only shows us that the taste of sour grapes must be very hard to get rid of.

wkugirl · Senior Member

Just want to say good luck to AJ in whatever plans he has going on for the hill! He is a class act, and will keep working to bring good things to Corbin.

Date: Nov 29, 2007

Seems to me that there are mixed emotions on the harley store. For me, I dont agree with giving out tax breaks and incentives unless the community it resides will benefit as a whole, regardless of what type of industry.

I think the dealership would have been great for Corbin, and would help bring a few more retailers in. Laurel County giving a incentive to the dealer is a smoke screen at best. The incentive didnt get offered until Corbin announced it was coming here. My guess is it wont amount to more than $20,000. total. The dealer was just making the best deal he could, and as a business owner myself, I dont blame him. Everybody wants to say that London beat Corbin, but in reality, the dealer is the decision maker here. I think he made a poor choice in the land he bought, but I'm sure there was a reason for his decision.

The property on the south end is about to explode with activity, and while we are not going to end up with a motorcycle dealership, we will end up with some new businesses. Private developement should not be interferred with by city goverment unless the city has something to offer. If the city offers to help, they better be prepared to act on their offerings. This is a good lesson for the private developer. If I was a developer, I would steer clear of getting the city involved in negotiations with any client.

Date: Nov 29, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

That was a very long and wordy post from an ex economic development director or his follower, mostly BS, in an effort to make the current economic development director look bad. It only shows us that the taste of sour grapes must be very hard to get rid of.

The current "Executive" Economic Development Director needs no one to help him look bad.

Date: Nov 29, 2007

Anonymous wrote:
Okay folks. Please understand that Harley Davidson the motorcycle manufacturer is not opening a facility in Corbin, London, Somerset or anywhere in Kentucky.

Comment 1
Regardless of who opens it the facility construction and real estate will cost several million dollars and many local area people would be involved in building the facility. It would also help attract other businesses.

It's a dealership, not a manufacturing facility. Harley Davidson will not benefit in any way from any incentive offered by any local government. It's like saying Ford cares about any incentive given to
Falls Ford.

Comment 2
Harley Davidson, Ford or any National Company are vitally interested in seeing their Dealership owners succeed.

Maddux is essentially the only one who will benefit from any locally offered incentives, not Harley Davidson.

Comment 3
What about the employees who get jobs in the business? What about the restaurant, motel, and shops in our area? Harley Davidson is a big draw in people. Visit one of their facilities and see the traffic they draw.

I could understand offering tax breaks or utility incentives to industrial companies looking to locate here, but a Harley Davidson dealership is a retail establishment owned by an individual.

Comment 4
How many major Industrial Companies are located in Corbin, Whitley County? How many major national retailers are located in Corbin, Whitley County? Are you satisfied that we should sit by and have nearly all major retail and manufacturers in Laurel and Knox Counties? In the Corbin City limits in Whitley County where would you build a major manufacturing operation?

With enough money, you could open your own Harley Davidson dealership. So should we pay you to open a store?

Comment 5

When you share a small amount of occupational taxes you are not now receiving from a company that will pay real estate taxes, school taxes, property taxes, insurance taxes, utility taxes, and a business license fee, what are you losing in future years? You are sharing some new money you are going to start receiving.

Hey if that's the case, I've got several great ideas. Someone send me a chunk of money, and tell me I can ignore the taxes and I'll open several places.

Comment 6

What taxes will they ignore? I promise you nobody is going to send you a chunk of money and nobody is sending Harley Davidson a chunk of money. But London/Laurel County are taking a small part of taxes they will soon start receiving and investing it in their future and in improving the quality of life of their people.

There are plenty of reasons that small businesses fail in the first year. Public incentives have yet to save a failing business.

Comment 7
Our Economic Development programs in Kentucky and locally need to be structured to help small businesses just as much as large businesses. How can you blame public incentives for not saving failing businesses if public incentives are not used?

One of the suggested programs for Harley Davidson that was turned down by Corbin included objectives Harley had to achieve in numbers of employees at the end of each year and the average wages that should be attained.

I loved baseball and like anyone else who played the game I hated to strikeout. My dad told me when I made Corbin High School's Team , "remember you and every other player will strikeout some. The important thing is don't strikeout standing there with the bat on your shoulder. Go down swinging."

AJ · Senior Member

Thanks for the words of encouragement. It is truly appreciated.

Vince Lombardi said it best when he said, " The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. " If you know me, then you know that I am an extremely positive person. This situation was bad for everyone, but character is built on adversity. We are diligently working on this project, and I intend to keep working diligently. The Harley store was not the only thing we were planning for this site, so while the court system determines the outcome, I will keep moving on with the development.

I will make this statement on the issue of Laurel providing an incentive plan to Harley. I am not dissapointed in either Laurel County or Corbin. I have many good friends in both goverments, and each did what they feel was best for their communities. I will not be a participant in pitting one community against another or a goverment leader against another. I would hope that both would work together, and as a member of both communities it is my responsiblity to be proactive in my approach in dealing with each of them. We are a team, not enemies, and the only way we can be better than those before us is for us to act differently than those before us. Its time to change the status quo. To achieve success as a community, we must be consistent and work diligently together at providing better resources for our families. I am focused on the success of Ridgeview Commons, and the success our community will gain from it.

A.J. Carr

Date: Nov 29, 2007

Good post AJ. I am sure that Ridgeview Commons will do well. The poster that keeps talking about incentives does not speak for the majority of the people of Corbin. Even the Mayor has made it very clear that he is not for giving an incentive to any business unless he can offer it to every business. The incentive poster is insulting the Mayors intelligence every time he posts about it.

Date: Nov 29, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Our Economic Development programs in Kentucky and locally need to be structured to help small businesses just as much as large businesses. How can you blame public incentives for not saving failing businesses if public incentives are not used?

What ever happened to the idea of a free market economy? You obviously think government interference is the answer to everything.

After reading other threads it sounds like south Corbin will be just fine without a dirty dealer like the Harley guy being a part of it.

Date: Nov 30, 2007

I agree with McBurney on this one.

Use the incentive money for something else.

Humility · Senior Member

Anonymous wrote:

I agree with McBurney on this one.

Use the incentive money for something else.

I agree. Jobs are not that important in Corbin. We need to have most of our city people working in Laurel, Knox, and Pulaski counties paying their occupational taxes and restaurant taxes out of our city.

We can hold on to the so called incentive money and attract retiring senior citizens from places across the world to move into the Corbin City limits. The only problem is where will they live? Tattersall? Hightop Road? Oak Grove? Bee Creek Road? Out of the city on the Cumberland Falls Highway in Whitley County? Over in the many subdivisions developing in Knox County? North of our city limits up in Laurel County? Keavy? Those are good places and they are all out of the city of Corbin.

Remember, if you don't use it you lose it.

If your population does not grow you lose your young people because they have to go away to pursue their dreams. But as the moving vans come to take them away we can save the incentive money.

What do we want to be when we grow up?

Date: Nov 30, 2007

Another bit of wisdom from Humility. I'll still go with McBurney's judgment on this one. No need to pay people to come to Corbin.

Date: Nov 30, 2007

Anonymous wrote:
Another bit of wisdom from Humility. I'll still go with McBurney's judgment on this one. No need to pay people to come to Corbin.

Another bit of sarcasm from Anonymous. You're right, no need to entice people to come to Corbin. They are coming in groves.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I agree 100% with the Humility post. I hope you are right, but we'll see in 3 to 5 years. My guess is we'll have some small growth, but not at the level of our neighbors to the north. They are aggressive and progressive, we are not, and frankly, we don't know how to be. History speaks for itself.

You may want to agree with Willard on this, but good leaders invite challange and debate, not brown nosers. I personally love Willard, he's a great man, but what business experience does he possess regarding retail, economic growth and business expansion? I hope he is listening to the right advisors.

Date: Nov 30, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

For the handful of business owners that don't understand that the more substantial businesses we have in our town the better it is for everyone, there are dozens and dozens that do understand and would have no problem with the right incentive program for someone like Harley-Davidson.

Apparently that it not what the Corbin voters are telling the Mayor. I'd say he has talked to almost every voter in the city at one time or the other. A while back there was a couple of people that wanted to get the Italian guy to being his cheese factory to Corbin and wanted the city to pay him too. That idea proved to have been a flop and would have been a waste of taxpayer money. I am glad there is a man like McBurney that will stop such foolishness before it happens.

Date: Nov 30, 2007

I think it is just much easier to do nothing, if you don't really have skills in that area. If you don't have negotiation skills or ideas on what to do to bring industry, it is much easier just to sit back and wait for people to come to us. But, unfortunately, that is not how it works. I, too, would like for my kids to be able to stay in Corbin, if they choose to do that. But, if we don't become pro-active, we are going to continue to lose business and not attract any new industry. Corbin has great potential, but not if we continue to let things slip away.

Date: Nov 30, 2007

If you know a lot about industry and have some good negotiating skills then maybe you could talk to the economic development director Bruce Carpenter and volunteer your time and effort under his supervision. You would be a real team player.

Date: Nov 30, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Another bit of sarcasm from Anonymous. You're right, no need to entice people to come to Corbin. They are coming in groves.

Trees and olives come in groves. Did you mean droves?

Date: Nov 30, 2007

lol. Sorry, never claimed I could type, but thanks for the correction. At least you know what I was driving at.

Date: Nov 30, 2007

Anonymous wrote:
If you know a lot about industry and have some good negotiating skills then maybe you could talk to the economic development director Bruce Carpenter and volunteer your time and effort under his supervision. You would be a real team player.

I'm sure with his global business expertise, impeccable management skills and superb negotiating talents, he doesn't need any help bring in world-class industry to Corbin.

Do they negotiate many deals at the Depot?

Date: Nov 30, 2007

Anonymous wrote:
If you know a lot about industry and have some good negotiating skills then maybe you could talk to the economic development director Bruce Carpenter and volunteer your time and effort under his supervision. You would be a real team player.

No, actually I don't have alot of negotiating skills, but I am very good at the job that I perform every day. However, I know my strengths and my weaknesses, and would never put myself in a position that I did not have the skills to perform. That is a characteristic of someone who can get things done, by recognizing when you don't have the skills, and taking the appropriate steps to find someone who can help you in those areas. It's the same for when you run a business, and hire a CPA, a professional, who has the skills you don't possess, to successfully run your business. Same concept. You can't succeed if you try to perform a job that you don't have the skills or experience to perform.

Date: Nov 30, 2007

You are right. One must always know their limitations.

Date: Nov 30, 2007

I think part of the problem with the Harley deal was that there were a few too many people trying to speak for the city of Corbin and it sent a confusing message. I think we all need to get behind and support our economic development director and elected leaders and work together as a team and not try to be cowboy glory hounds working outside the system to get credit.

Allow our leaders to lead. A few meddlers need to realize they are just cogs in the wheel.

Date: Dec 1, 2007

I just read in the paper that Harley Davidson just bought a site in London. I thought they were coming to Corbin? What is the world happened? General Shale recently closed and that hurt us bad. What will be next?

Date: Dec 1, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

I think part of the problem with the Harley deal was that there were a few too many people trying to speak for the city of Corbin and it sent a confusing message. I think we all need to get behind and support our economic development director and elected leaders and work together as a team and not try to be cowboy glory hounds working outside the system to get credit.

Allow our leaders to lead. A few meddlers need to realize they are just cogs in the wheel.

Be specific instead of laying out a bunch of accusations that throw blame on some unamed persons. Who all has spoken for the city? Who were the too many people who were involved? Who asked them to be involved? Who are the cowboy glory hounds who are working outside the system to get credit? Who are the so called meddlers? Give us some truthful facts and not a bunch of ficticious innuendos.

Date: Dec 1, 2007

I think it was easy to see just the opposite happened, not enough people got involved. When you start suing people, that means the communicaitons has broken down.

The Mayor and Commissioners, and especially the Economic Dev. Director should have been hounding Maddux from day one, saying, "What can we do for you! How can we help you!" Instead, we just ran away.

Date: Dec 1, 2007

The mayor, commisioners, city manager, and the economic development director no doubt was probably involved which no doubt made things worse. The harley guy dealt with corbins goverment and londons goverment leaders and decided there was better advantages in london. What else could it be? If he is truly looking at locating on Hwy 80 rather than being on I-75, this is not a property issue. According to the newspapers, the property prices are within 150 grand, which is nothing when you are talking traffic and visiblity. So what is it? What could this guy really be looking at in regards to advantages and disadvantages in the location of his store? What about the pearson deal? I have heard they are packing up and moving to london too. What in the world is going on around here? I cant believe everyone is just seeing this as just a "ho hum" type thing. Maybe our leaders are just hoping laurel will sooner or later run out of land so we wont have to worry about competing anymore. What about the new sports complex up at the civic center? First there was machines up there working, then the paper says that the original plans are going to change, now there is no machines up there working, and the new sports guys are saying they are not dealing with the city and its plans anymore. I live in the city, and it is time for house cleaning all the way around. The mayor and the commissioners are sleeping at the wheel, our economic director is clueless and the city manager isnt even suspicious! This is taxation without representation in my opinion. Please, someone run for public office with business sense. We are in a mess with no light at the end of the tunnel.