Incentives: Is our city commission sleeping at the wheel !!

Date: Sep 22, 2007

Incentives: Is our city commission sleeping at the wheel !!

Date: Sep 22, 2007

This was posted by Jr.

Date: Sep 22, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

She is a fine person, and will be a fine public servant.

Yes. She is. And you will continue to say this over and over until she votes against you. Then you will pick her apart anonymously like the others.

Date: Sep 22, 2007

Why do you think only Bob Jr. can post items such as this. Do you think everyone is on the bandwagon for our elected officials except for him. Do you ever get out of the house and talk to people, I think not.

This website has given all of us that read and post here, the opportunity to speak our minds, and bring up issues and questions that has never been asked before. We are now questioning those that represent us.

So what if no one posts their name, big deal. The only people getting dragged across the carpet is elected officials, or those that choose to serve on public committees. They are being held accountable.

You know, one thing that the mayor and city commissioners could do to help curb the criticism, is to put them on this website, or any website, and have an email account for each one, so we can send them our complaints, ideas, suggestions, and also praise, and they can answer it. And require a name and address with the questions. Not for them to publish on a reply board, but for them to know who is asking. They would only publish the question, and their reply. No redundancy, you can look through the responses and see if your question had been asked.

Also, put the meeting minutes of the city commission and all the official committees on a city hall website. If not this one, any one. Allow us to see what is said, what is voted on. ( I think I'll make that a new thread) That will answer a lot of questions.

Bob Terrell (Jr.) · Veteran Member

Anonymous wrote:

This was posted by Jr.

Look into your crystal ball again. And while Bob Sr. nor myself started this thread, I won't sit here and say I don't agree with a good portion of it, and I'm glad it came up.

I think incentives should be looked at case by case, and if it is needed to be competitive with other towns vying for the same businesses, it should be considered, especially if recent history tells us we are losing many of these deals. I'm not saying we should give anyone the world, nor in all cases give them anything at all, but I also believe, before we hear an immediate "NO" everytime, or "it can't be done", we need to look at each case from all angles, look at who Corbin is competing with, do all of the math to see if it would be a win-win for both the people of Corbin and the new business, and discuss the pros and cons of doing the deal.

City Business is no different that banking, manufacturing, retail or any other business. If your competitors have a good product or service, which they do, and they are offering programs that are taking potential business from you, you have to constantly rethink and modify your sales strategy.

Corbin has the talent to work in this manner. Bruce Ferris and Phil Gregory know much of the financial and tax aspects of city business that I'll never know, and have never claimed to know, and offer these strenghts and assets as commissioners. Dennis Lynch brings the experience of running a retail business in the city of Corbin for years, was heavily involved in Tourism for many years, and everyone knows his passion for Corbin is unsurpassed, among many other attributes. Joe, I'm not sure what you bring, but I'm still working on it (just joking). Joe Shelton is a good guy, and brings his passion for kids and for the community in general - I don't know anyone who gets into the medical field or teaching that isn't passionate about kids and people - and can be a great asset for Corbin's various programs - not just youth sports, but all programs. Willard McBurney brings the leadership and direction to the group. All of these people bring their own set of strengths to City Government.

I also know for a fact that all of these people bring good morals and values, and I think really want what is best, but every one of you also has to be willing to listen to someone else's opinion, and realize occasionally that the other person offers a strength or knowledge that you may not necessarily have experience in. When you combine all these peoples strengths together, it could make some good things happen to this area, if everybody will look at the other person's perspective for a few minutes.

In reality this area has about the greatest potential of any in the U.S., but Corbin still has to be competitive with thousands of other cities and towns - they are not going to come crawling to us - Corbin has to still sell them.

Regarding Suzie Razmus, I certainly won't disagree with the original poster, I also have great respect for her, whether she votes for me or against me on some issue, and the same goes with the other board members, and I know they all know this.

As far as this assumption by a couple of you that Sr. and I are behind all of the posts critical of certain people, I hope all of you get together and discuss who is feeding you this subliminal message - I think you'll find the trail of crumbs follows back to the same few individuals. For those who want to believe that Bob Sr. and I sit on the computer all day and post 4300+ comments, I guess you will believe what you want to believe.

I think most of you know both of us well enough to know how we communicate our ideas and opinions - whether you always want to hear them or not.

I'm sure I'll get slammed by a couple of you for these comments, but that is OK. I am the first to say, you can't please everyone.

Bob Terrell (Jr.)

-- Edited by Bob Terrell (Jr.) at 15:38, 2007-09-22

Date: Sep 22, 2007

When someone decides to start posting on a public message board they should be aware that there are ways to find out where the post originated by tracking the IP address of the poster and you don't have to be the board administrator to do it.

So be responsible in what you say.

Date: Sep 22, 2007

What are you trying to say, last poster????????????

Administrator 4 · New Member

They are just trying to be distruptive to the board, with this post and comments about handicapped people, among others. Their location had been blocked, but they could turn up at another pc.

Date: Sep 22, 2007

Administrator 4 wrote:

They are just trying to be distruptive to the board, with this post and comments about handicapped people, among others. Their location had been blocked, but they could turn up at another pc.

Good. Nobody should have to read anything they don't agree with. Let's get together sometime and burn a book.

Date: Sep 22, 2007

Do we have 4 administrators now,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,?

Date: Sep 23, 2007

You know, with all this incentive talk, you'd think someone in our city government would have the inititave to go and check out this incentive stuff if they don't know about it.

Like, the city manager, he gets paid to do stuff like that. It seems to me it would be within the scope of his employment, to check this stuff out. He's a salaried employee, so send him somewhere to find out. If virtually every county in kentucky can do it, why can't we. Are we too lazy to get out of our offices and check this out.

This is what our city government is supposed to be doing.

Date: Sep 23, 2007

I was told the Turrells promised incentives to Harley and because the mayor said No they are starting this asleep at the wheel campaign against him.

Date: Sep 23, 2007

Really,,,,,,,,,,,, who told you that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,let me guess, probably the same person that says we didn't land on the moon, Area 51 has alien bodies, and Elvis isn't really dead.

Date: Sep 23, 2007

No need to get silly about it but that is the story going around town. It may not be true and I hope it is not. I really didn't intend it to sound so much like an insult to Mr Terrell or Bib Jr. and I apologize if it did. The story may not be true but from what was said in the start of this thread it sounded reasonable enough. I will check around and see what others say about it. If it is not true then please say so but it is common knowledge that the mayor is opposed to paying incentives and to try to discredit him for it on the board is not good.

Date: Sep 23, 2007

Funny, I talk to the mayor several times a week. You must be a drinking buddy of the Terrell basher. McBurney is good friends with the Terrells, both the Terrells and McBurneys go to our church, share the same Sunday School class, and all I ever hear from Bob Sr. and Jr. are positives about McBurney. You must be desperate.

Date: Sep 23, 2007

Sounds like Mr. McBurney needs to get on the stick and find out about these incentives our town should not be outdone by others in the state just because he hasn't done his homework. i'm glad we have people like the Terells to point out how ineffective our mayor is.

Date: Sep 23, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

I was told the Turrells promised incentives to Harley and because the mayor said No they are starting this asleep at the wheel campaign against him.

First, my son and I were asked to help on the Harley Davidson project at the last moment when it looked like they would go to another city. We never attended any meeting with Harley Davidson's ownership without being accompanied by Mayor McBurney and Dennis Lynch. We had several conference calls which were made in the City Manager's office. My son was asked to prepare a first class presentation similar to the one he did on the Cumberland Falls Golf Course. And he and I accompanied the Mayor and Commissioner Lynch to meet in Maryville. to present Corbin's message.The meeting went well and we scheduled a follow up meeting in Corbin.

We explained to Harley Davidson that my son and I had no position of authority with the city and that we were just helping as private citizens without any compensation.

No.....we did not promise anything to them. We may believe personally that Corbin/Whitley County should have matched Laurel/County's offer, but we did not exercise any authority on this issue.

Second, last night Paul Jones, Jerry Bird and I attended the CHS reunion of the 1944-1948 classes at Cumberland Falls State Park. Mayor McBurney did a fine job greeting the attendees on behalf of the people of Corbin. He and I are good friends, we and our wives attend the same Sunday School Class, I bragged on him to his many family members who attended last night's events, and anyone who tries to start rumors about our relationship is totally wrong.

Are my son and I aggressive and persistent in trying get a company to establsh a multi-million dollar business in Corbin? Yes, we are.

Can the Harley project help open the door for some other businesses to move into the 40 acre development site? Yes. We have a great respect for A. J. Carr and Steve Brock and totally support their vision for that site.

The easiest thing my son and I could have done when we were asked to help on the Harley project was to say no.....The easiest thing in the world is to say no to trying to make something happen. When you say no it means you don't have to do anything. We are also proud of Dennis Lynch and the way he does not give up.

So let's be clear. We support fully Mayor McBurney. He is a good man and a good Mayor. We have tried our very best on the Harley project and have done our work at no compensation and by making sure it was understood we have no authority and no position in the City.

Bob Terrell, Sr.

Date: Sep 23, 2007

I don't blame the mayor or commissioners one bit for not wanting to give any incentives to companies to come in, but, in one other town or county does, and they get a company, the everyone is going to have to do it. That's just the way it is.

Remember the big stink when Martha Layne Collins gave up the goose to Toyota. She was a dog when the specifics of the deal came out. Now look at it, she's a hero. If we could get another corporate citizen like Toyota and had to give up some tax money or something, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Those are real jobs, jobs that you can buy homes and cars and put your kids through college with.

The mayor and commissioners just don't know how to do it, or how much they can do, and I think that is what scares them. If they'll just call someone and ask them.

McBurney is just new at his job, and it takes time to learn the ropes, the ins and outs of politics. He is doing an excellent job.

Some think the Harley store is just another retailer, but it has dedicated customers all over the nation. Go out on saturday or sunday and take a ride, and see how many bikes are on the road. And the majority are Harley's. And those that don't ride one, wish they did. Its the collateral business's that can follow we should be excited about.

Date: Sep 24, 2007

The 1,500 employee grant is just a smoke screen. I was told that five wealthy Laurel businessmen offered the Harley guy 30,000 each in order to pay back the 150,000 down payment that he had made. I will not mention any names but you can ask just about anyone that follows city government closely and they can tell you. They thought that this would be a way for him to get out of his Corbin deal. It is true that the Mayor has said many time that he will not pay money to any business owner that he cannot offer to every business owner. He has held his ground on this even though he has been pressured with visits, calls and letters from previous posters in this topic to pay an incentive to Harley.

wkugirl · Senior Member

I don't pretend to know alot about negotiating a business deal or what incentives should be offered to a potential company. But, I do know when there are effective people in our midst who can. When I read the above posts from Bob Sr and Bob Jr, it just shows their intelligence, their ability to articulate their ideas, and their diplomacy. These are the qualities we need to represent our area. Unfortunately, neither of them have an official capacity to act on our benefit, and that is a shame. And the real shame is that "we" meaning our boards, voted "Sr" out, and are trying their best to get "Jr" to just leave town. When are "we" going to wake up? How many more businesses do we have to lose? When I drive through Corbin, I see General Shale closing, Falls Ford a ghost town, Vintage House gone, Harley Dealership potentially not coming. "We" have to wake up, because I feel our city's potential swirling the drain!!! If these other cities can attract business, then why can't we???

Date: Sep 24, 2007

You probably mean well but you don't have a clue.

wkugirl · Senior Member

Well, please clue me in. I'll listen to whatever you have to say. I'm open minded enough to say that if you have something that will convince me otherwise, I'll admit I don't have a clue. I'm waiting...........

Terry P · Veteran Member

It's my understanding the incentive offered by Laurel County was to be funded by their business & occupational tax. Having heard the cries from Whitley Co about the B&O tax implemented by the Fiscal Court, I wonder how many would support a continuation of the tax in order to "incent" Harley Davidson or the next retailer? I am just curious if we as individuals are willing to reach into our own respective pockets to offer retailers an incentive to come to our community?

So, my question to you is, are you willing to pay for a Harley store or maybe an anchor store like Target?

Just curious! confused

Terry

wkugirl · Senior Member

That's a good question. If Laurel County can use their B&O tax to give incentives, then where is our Whitley County occupational tax going? Can it not be used the same?? Like I said before, I don't pretend to understand how all of this works. But if Laurel and Whitley are both paying occupational tax, then why can't we offer the same???

And, as a business owner, and I will probably be in the minority here, but I would be willing to help invest in our area. I would feel much better about the occupational tax being used to attract business than to bail out a jail that was so mismanaged.

How does it work with our occupational tax in Whitley County? I need someone to educate me here. How can Laurel Co do it, and we can't?

Date: Sep 24, 2007

Terry P wrote:

It's my understanding the incentive offered by Laurel County was to be funded by their business & occupational tax. Having heard the cries from Whitley Co about the B&O tax implemented by the Fiscal Court, I wonder how many would support a continuation of the tax in order to "incent" Harley Davidson or the next retailer? I am just curious if we as individuals are willing to reach into our own respective pockets to offer retailers an incentive to come to our community?

So, my question to you is, are you willing to pay for a Harley store or maybe an anchor store like Target?

Just curious!

Terry

We as tax payers are not really reaching into our pockets to incentivize growth and prosperity. The taxes we end up receiving in property, school, hotel, occupational, and restaurant taxes will offset this kind of $1,500 per employee incentive. Right now we are not receiving any taxes for a several million dollar facility on that track of land. That improvement to the land will be much more valuable in the coming years. Within two or three years it is expected that there will be as many as sixty employees at that company. Harley's jobs pay well. The question is do we want to compete with our hands tied behind our backs or do we want to compete head to head on an even playing field.

Back in the late 1960's and early 1970's the US Automotive Industry decided it did not want to invest much money in designing and marking small cars. They did not believe the Japanese Car Manufacturers could penetrate this market. Ford came out with the Maverick. It was a well build car but the design was not acceptable. Why? Ford cut back on costs on the design. The US Manufacturers did not believe fuel economy was that important. During the early 1970's the US Auto Industry started seeing their share of the market fall. They were happy and sassy about their position in the market and they did not have the vision to see that the world market was going to get tougher and tougher.

The same is true in jobs. The world is fighting for jobs. Manufacturing jobs are moving overseas. But the US is still a great comsumer market and the city of Corbin has very few major retail organizations in the city limits. JC Penney, Belks, KMart, Dawhares are in Knox County, and Lowes, one of the Kroger stores, and Wal-Mart are in Laurel County, and Corbin receives none of the occupational tax from either of these counties.

We must be able to see what we can become, and not just be satisfied with what we are. I don't know all the answers. But I have found during these past years that in order to grow and prosper you have to be willing to change and take a risk. If we are going to play the game on the big field of life we must have a winning plan.....and know how to execute it.

Bob Terrell, Sr.

-- Edited by Bob Terrell (Sr.) at 22:04, 2007-09-24

Date: Sep 24, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

This was posted by Jr.

No it wasn't. Your crystal ball is all fogged up.

Date: Sep 24, 2007

I have a couple of questions....

1. Has anyone seen the contract between Harley and the developers in Corbin? I think it is now public and part of the lawsuit.

2. Was there any stipulations in the contract regarding the city or county goverment had to put up money or incentives?

3. In the london paper I remember the Harley dealer stating that when he made his decision HE would make it public. So if it is for sure going to london, why hasnt he made that public statement yet?

4. It would be hard to believe that the magistrates in london would have voted a incentive package, one that is based on the occupational tax paid by others, when these private investors was putting up 150K? You dont wear a raincoat unless it is raining.

5. I wonder if Harley corporate knows what is going on? I would think if they knew what was happening here, they would either tell him to clean up the mess quickly, or risk losing the dealership all together.

Overall, I see this as being a huge mess for everyone involved. The dealership owner is going to pay big bucks just defending himself, not to mention if he loses in court, the damages could be huge. This lawsuit was filed in Whitley, so one has to figure the scale is leaning in favor of the developers. Whether or not the county or city do anything, I think the dealer has done a terrible job at P&R. Regardless where he goes, I think he will have to, at some point, do damage control.